syncronization and frequency lock via genlock

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syncronization and frequency lock via genlock

Postby Sam Kriemelmeyer » Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:22 pm

We all know that Pandoras Box is great for perfect frame matching synchronization. With a 10ms refresh of the timeline, Pandoras is sub frame accurate. My question is: Can we use the timeline for sync as well as using genlocking video cards for frequency locking? I believe ATI has a dual DVI output card with a separate piggy back card that links computers for genlock.

Does anyone have any experience with this?
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Re: syncronization and frequency lock via genlock

Postby Daniel Kaminski » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:34 pm

Hi Sam,

There are 2 different things.

a) Timeline Framesync of the videoplayback ensures that we render each frame at the same time
b) Pixelclock sync of graphicscard ensures that the refresh of the screen starts at the same time

What you can do with HighEnd Workstation Graphicscards is Sync their Pixelclock to a Genlock Signal.
The Pixelclock Sync has been tested across multiple servers and works great.
The Genlock Option has not been tested, the only difference to the tests we have done is that the Master is not Internal but external (Genlock).

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Re: syncronization and frequency lock via genlock

Postby Sam Kriemelmeyer » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:57 pm

A client tested this and said it worked...



http://www.nvidia.com/page/quadrofx_family.html
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Re: syncronization and frequency lock via genlock

Postby bhenry1790 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:10 pm

I sliced a piece of video content in the middle and rendered as mpeg2 (fixed bit-rate 18mbps) then re-aligned the two sections in Pandoras Box on the same player. Most of the time it looks great, but occasionally tearing along the slice occurs. We are trying to build an absolutely perfect seamless display and I'm expecting that the tear would be even more visible across multiple PB players.

I'm demoing PB server EDU and and MMU MSM-V40-008.
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Re: syncronization and frequency lock via genlock

Postby Sam Kriemelmeyer » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:40 pm

is this across the same output device? are the clips locked to the timeline? is there a pre-roll?
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Re: syncronization and frequency lock via genlock

Postby JustynR » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:26 pm

Is there audio embedded in the video?

That would cause sync issues...
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Re: syncronization and frequency lock via genlock

Postby bhenry1790 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:05 pm

False alarm... I was just hallucinating. My apologies.

Could a Genlock / Framelock compatible card be installed in a PB Server? I'm having very good results with so far with our hardware, but I'm finding that playback may start slightly out of phase. They stay synced well, just one screen is 1/60th ahead or behind.

Thanks for the quick response.
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Re: syncronization and frequency lock via genlock

Postby Markus Zeppenfeld » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:34 am

Hi!

Yes, you can order frame-lock cards for Servers optionally. Please contact your dealer for that.

Please make sure, that all screens and the signal chain is the absolutely equal for all outputs.
We have tested framelocks without any 1/60s difference. Everything stayed absolutely in sync.

Hope this helps,
Markus
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Re: syncronization and frequency lock via genlock

Postby plbrunet » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:02 am

Hi Markus,

Hopefully you can see this even if this thread is about 4 and half years old.

Have you guys done a Frame Lock setup recently using Windows 7 or 8?
Because today we setup a Frame Lock system and it did not give us the expected results.

2 Players STD running Windows 8.1 pro 64bits
Each player has a Quadro M4000 with a Quadro Sync card (see links below)
1 output is being used per Quadro. 1920x1200 60hz per computer.

We setup the Frame lock following the Nvidia user Manual where we setup 1 master and 1 client and all the LEDs on the sync cards and the System topology shows that all should be in sync.
But when we run our test video from those 2 computers into 2 LED screens, we do not get a Frame Locked result. The frame lock doesn't seem to be doing anything...

Here you can see a video which shows this exact setup. In that video the 2 Quadro are synced. *Watch until the end*, at 34-35 seconds you will clearly see that we are not frame synced.
1 video file is being played by both computers. Each computer plays on one half of the LED screen. Computer 1 = Left half, computer 2 = right half.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B75KozyiVk3ZVEV3VmJmUGp2RW8/view?usp=sharing

The PB manual stills mentions a setup of dual view displays which would make me think it dates back to Windows XP. Is that the case? Because since Windows 7 we cannot do that anymore. And the screenshots are in German. We got the jist of it but it would a bit more international if it were in english. :wink:
http://www.coolux.de/root/downloads/support/Documentation/Helpfile/index.html#setting_up_frame_lock.htm

Are we missing something?
Should we not be fully frame synced with this setup?

Thank you.

http://images.nvidia.com/content/pdf/quadro/data-sheets/12489_NV_DS_Quadro_M4000_US_NV_FNL_HR.pdf
http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro-sync.html
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Re: syncronization and frequency lock via genlock

Postby Thomas Mrozek » Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:17 am

Hi,
please try to use 'Fluid Frame' option in Ressource Inspector settings. You should have perfect sync.
cheers
Thomas
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Re: syncronization and frequency lock via genlock

Postby Daniel Kaminski » Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:49 am

Hi,
One more thing, since we ran into this problem 3 weeks ago.
Have you checked that your LED Walls / Controllers are in Sync?

Testsetup would be:

White Strobe Testpattern out of ImagePro into DVI DA into both LED Controllers.
Is the Strobe in Sync?

Daniel
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Re: syncronization and frequency lock via genlock

Postby plbrunet » Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:55 pm

Hi guys,

We did try FluidFrame and yes it appears to make things in sync but should we need it? Should it not be in sync all the time while using the Quadro Sync card? It really seems to not be doing anything.
Because otherwise, the expensive Quadro Sync card setup seems like a waste of time and money.

We also tried a bunch of different combinations of tests.

Test #1 : 1 computer with 2 outputs with one Nvidia GTX970 into our 2 LED processors into 2 LED screens, No FluidFrame. Results = Yes in sync.
So from this test do we know that the 2 LED processors do not affect the sync of the signal and that 2 outputs from one GTX970 in one computer is in sync.
https://goo.gl/photos/y2KpsQYwAq2BPNr7A

Other test was: 2 computers (1 output each, each using 1 GTX970) into our 2 LED processors into 2 LED screens, No FluidFrame. Results = Not in sync.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B75KozyiVk3ZUHRqYTR1dUJxNkE/view?usp=sharing

Other test was: 2 computers (1 output each, each using 1 GTX970) into our 2 LED processors into 2 LED screens, WITH FluidFrame. Results = Almost perfectly in sync. Very acceptable
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B75KozyiVk3ZU2FubE91RllicDQ/view?usp=sharing

Daniel, we do not have an imagepro here but we could try a strobe test outputted from a coolux player. I would have to see if we have a DA. That being said, from our previous test the 2 LED processors never affected the sync. We were able to notice a clear differences with the different setups.

Does that test #1 work for you as a proof or would you still like us to run the strobe test?

Thanks.
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Re: syncronization and frequency lock via genlock

Postby Daniel Kaminski » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:23 pm

Regarding Test #1:

How was the GTX970 configured?
If the 2 Outputs were in spanning mode that you should have sync. If they were not you got very lucky, because the outputs run independent in that case.

Framesync means that the GPU starts to draw a picture on all synced outputs at the same time. The image from the GPU is is send out pixel by pixel. If you are not in Framesync one output my be at pixel 200.000 of that frame and the other is at pixel 500. Framesync ensures that all attached GPUs draw pixel 1 at the same time.

And yes if you are running content over multiple outputs from multiple machines we recommend Fluidframe.

Daniel
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Re: syncronization and frequency lock via genlock

Postby JustynR » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:29 pm

But if you go into the cards with Genlock, should you really need Image Pros?

Won't the sync cards make the clocks the same in each graphics card? Is that not the point?


I ask this because I have a show next week with multiple machines going into the E2.
Others have told me that the sync cards (if genlocked) will make all of the clocks in all of the cards run the same, therefore we don't need to worry about sync (otherwise, why would we bother with syncable cards?!)

Or do I actually need 12 image pros?!
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Re: syncronization and frequency lock via genlock

Postby Daniel Kaminski » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:34 pm

Why do you think that you will need ImagePros?
Nobody said anything about it.

The ImagePros were only mentioned for a test as a signal generator.

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